Joe Duffy: Yeah, I think cloud engineering to me is the next phase after DevOps. DevOps has really laid this amazing foundation over the last decade of bringing a lot more engineering practices to the way we do operations. But I think of cloud engineering as two things. One, bringing the cloud closer to developers, so developers can think of the cloud as really an extension of their application architecture. Really think of managed services as exciting components and building blocks for building these powerful distributed applications that are sort of born in the cloud.

While at the same time, bringing software engineering best practices to the way we manage infrastructure, to help tame the complexity. Things like sharing and reuse of best practices, testing, continuous delivery of infrastructure alongside the application code. And really by doing that cloud engineering, allows both developers and infrastructure teams to work closer together.

Now I will say security is sort of in the loop as well. And increasingly we see that becoming part of the inner loop of how folks are doing cloud engineering. So that’s what it is to me. You know, I think cloud-native… Everybody has a sort of different definition of cloud-native, but I think of cloud engineering as more the practice, the discipline, very similar to sort of DevOps.